The recent violence in Charlottesville, VA has a long history that must be remembered if we have any hope of not repeating a part of history that thankfully almost all Americans today find deplorable. This history of our nation is built on the lives and actions of people with huge problems and inconsistencies. Those we put our hopes in today to lead our governments are built of the same material and have the same potential as General Robert E. Lee. If today’s leaders lived in the times and situations of Lee, they very likely would have held similar views.
This does not at all excuse actions that in any way made way for the evil of human slavery. But we need this history in our faces to remind us that talented, accomplished and popular people are wholly capable of supporting or defending evil practices. While the statues of key figures in our nation’s history point to very accomplished and loved people in American history, they also remind us all how even accomplished and loved people can embrace that which is gravely wrong.
It is an awesome thing that our nation has grown from where it was when the color of a person’s skin could completely determine their station in society. It will be an even better day when skin color or any other physical characteristic is simply seen as part of each person’s God-created uniqueness, period. But that societal growth will not happen if we hide history.
We are not in a battle of good people vs. bad people. We all have a fallen nature and the biggest mistake we could make is to pretend that human nature has improved and is more trustworthy today than in the days of Robert E. Lee. Who is not bent to put their wellbeing and the wellbeing of those closest to them far above the well-being of others, most especially those who have no voice? Are we any more righteous than Lee, or are we just “lucky” we did not live in his world, so that the stain of human slavery is not also on us?
Don’t we have our own stains today? Do we really embrace the equality of all human lives? Or have we stood by in our own comforts while over 50 million defenseless little human lives have been “legally” snuffed out? Are we as much products of our time and numb to this killing as Lee and others were a product of their time? Do we really have the courage to face the horrors that we as humans are capable of committing? Or are we going to cleanse history and go on ignoring the evils of our day?
Those who framed our nation were greatly influenced by Biblical teachings on human nature and Biblical recorded history, which puts the failures of even its key figures on full display. Our nation did not become the freest and prosperous nation by the efforts of perfect people, but rather from the efforts of very imperfect people who understood human history well enough to know that for this new experiment in self-government to survive it required a government with both limited opportunities for, and checks against, the abuse of power.
How foolish it would be for us to “clean up” American history such that future generations cannot learn from the failures of those who came before. Ignorance of history is responsible for elitist ideas, like socialism, communism and fascism that reject human equality and every human’s bent to abuse power, to grow like a cancer and deliver massive human and environmental carnage.
32 comments
New Jersey has determined Antifa to be a terrorist org:https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/anarchist-extremists-antifa?rq=antifa
Excellent thoughts, sir. Thanks for writing.
Speaking of cleansing history, were we?
http://mtairynews.com/archive/26080/view-full_story-1781147-article-troubled_virginia_judge_steps_down
Does anyone know who this is? Whomever it is would have diminished credibility to speak here to these issues, right?
Mr. Ad Hominem, T Fake.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa
You assume that the desire on the part of the left is to clean up history. That is incorrect. They wish to utterly erase history. The great new utopian world cannot be built on the foundation of American history but on its ashes. The Constitution must be eliminated along with the other monuments to America.
This is why Mao had a little red book – it was all you needed to know as a citizen. This is why Kim Jong Un punishes anyone who thinks for themselves, and the punishment is draconian. History is dangerous to the socialists, communists, fascists, and other totalitarians.
It is shocking to see you, Warmac999, write these words unattributed to anyone else but you alone:
“The Constitution must be eliminated along with the other monuments to America.”
Source or its fake news.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4ef2854e8317296d90bfc79424ec8f1731ee40ac88da4584fb9ef04f87c6f28e.jpg
Preserve that evidence for the deposition! It’s the smoking gun!
What is all this about depositions, “being prepared to testify” etc? Who do you represent? Are you even a lawyer?
No… he is a childish liberal (or a liberal child… its hard to tell).
He is deflecting in a huge way on one of the Charlottesville articles, the one about the legislature investigating that debacle.
All your protestations of the other day claiming that you weren’t trolling anyone, but had real concern and admiration for Warmac, are ringing decidedly hollow. You are looking more and more like a troll with a vendetta against two specific people.
If this is how you treat people you claim are “on the spectrum,” you are sinking lower in my estimation by the minute.
Is this not Ole’Redneck?
Are you referring to me or to T.Kane? If you mean me, the answer is no. I’ve never used a different screen name.
T K
Never heard of such a person, but upon research located someone like that at Bearing Drift. Interesting place, but, no, not me. Or him/her. Whatever.
You referred to it as a mental disease. Really? Look in the mirror.
I reciprocate the Warmac9999 and AmyH treatment. You reap what you sow.
Really? I don’t recall doing that, But since you have no respect for people with Asperger’s, why would you care if I did?
You have gone out of your way to hurl insults at people for their opinions.and have declared that total strangers have Asperger’s. You may call that reciprocal treatment, but most of us call it trolling.
Hurling insults at people? Here at TBE? Complaining about that would be like giving out speeding tickets at the Indy 500.
You did do it, and I took a different position, that it was not a mental disease, that it is simply a condition that explains lack of social context and balance, which could explain a lot.
I asked many times. No denial, but who knows? It is important, however, in evaluating claims made here, many of which are outlandish and misleading, based on rumor and innuendo and worse.
Do you own research, T. Warmac isn’t your servant.
The historical origins of Antifaschiste Aktion are not really disputed, I would think.
No they are not.
Do you truly believe that the far left, including Antifa and others don’t want to undermine the US government, including the Constitution? If so, check out their websites and you will find that they don’t pretend to want anything different.
They are anti-government, anti-capitalist, anti-police, anti-ICE, anti-free speech unless they agree with what you are saying. The oxymoronic “Peace through violence” is an Antifa slogan and violence is excused and even encouraged for a variety of reasons.
We’ve heard a lot in the past couple of weeks about hate groups but the left wing groups are definitely hate groups. It takes no more than a quick reading of their own websites, reading their own words, to verify the truth in that.
Their websites? Who believes anything they find on the net, so false are the setups. I don’t even know if there is anything organized at all. Very skeptical about these claims of an organized anything where there is no court or legal activity directed at any entity at all. If the police or law enforcement charge them with something and prove the case, I’ll pay attention. Until then, I stand waiting proof. Like Warmac9999 keeps reminding us about the guy who allegedly murdered and maimed. Prove it.
How do you expect me to prove it if you won’t accept a link to the internet because you declare the entire internet to be fake news?
I cannot hold your hand and lead you to the library (do you trust the references there?) or someplace else you trust. I told you where you can verify what I said, and you didn’t even bother to look. If you want to remain ignorant, that’s your choice.
If, however, you want to learn, it’s not too difficult to do. But you’ll have to do it alone.
Seriously? Wouldn’t more than three decades of organized crime bring charges, proof, indictments, more? If you trust the police, what happened in C-ville was primarily the fault of the fascists. If you don’t trust the police, you believe organized crime was responsible. I ask the latter crowd: Where is the evidence? I’ve looked and it is lacking — worse it appears a distraction, one that you have fallen for. If after three decades of antifa in the US the FBI did not attend the C-ville event and intercept antifa, which the claims here suggest was clear it was headed there, I cannot understand who is in charge of US law enforcement. If it is not Republicans, how does our govt work? And why do people here actually run down Comey and Mueller, good men both?
Again, these people must appear in public in an organized fashion or the claims against them are false. Where then is the FBI? What people here claim is organized crime bent on the destruction of US and the constitution is gathering in public at appointed times and places. Scoop ’em up! Intercept their travel arrangements, etc. This is not rocket science. Either they are organized crime with treasonous goals or not. If the former let’s bring it down. If not, why the distraction?
And I think you know the answer to that.
The Police Chief in Charlottesville takes orders from the mayor, and the officers take their orders from the Police Chief. If the mayor instructs the Chief of Police to not allow the officers to act, the police stand down. I don’t know who ordered the Charlottesville police to stand down, but that’s exactly what they did.
Your phrase, “organized crime” is yours, not mine. Antifa is not organized like the Mafia, which I explicitly stated. Antifa is a group of individuals who are like minded but who act as individuals. Further, they cover their faces to conceal their identities. How would a prosecutor obtain a guilty verdict when they can’t even prove that the perpetrator is the one on trial?
What makes you think that no arrests means no crime was committed. Using your logic, that would mean that the Nazis committed no crime except for the driver. Is that what you believe?
Why do people here run down Comey and Mueller? Ask them. I speak only for myself. And what on earth do Comey and Mueller have to do with the topic under discussion?
Evidence for paragraph one” It is contradicted as follows by Snopes: “The city operates under a council-manager
form of municipal government, meaning the city manager functions as the
executive. Under this system, the mayor is selected by the City
Council, not voters. The role rotates and is mostly ceremonial in its
duties. Thus, Charlottesville Mayor Michael Signer would not have had
the authority to issue a “stand-down” order to the police.” The truth? I do not know, but it sounds credible to me. Investigation will prove one way or the other, but this is hard to contradict without more.
Yes, I used organized crime because that is how it sounds with the claims here, which have Soros funding them and claims that they have specific goals which include destroying the USA and its constitution. How could they have goals if they are completely decentralized and without a center-based authority?
No, I agree: Crimes were committed by individuals. They can and should be prosecuted. My question is about “antifa” as an entity, which is the claim. I find the evidence lacking. I do not know much about right-wing hate groups, but they looked organized, moving in double-file lines.
Comey and Mueller matter because they’ve been declared here bad people, which I find incredible. Truly it is hard to see how conservatives have a beef with either of them, other than sycophantic deference to Trump, whose self-interest is at stake as Comey and Mueller do and did their jobs.
Antifa consists of a lot of different groups who all have the same ideology. There is no official membership list. They also don’t have a hierarchy like the Mafia, who all ultimately reported to one mob boss, whether directly or indirectly. That doesn’t mean that Antifa isn’t attempting to undermine the country. Their goals are to eliminate any form of government, get rid of police, get rid of ICE, etc. They are anarchists with the typical goals of anarchists. I know of a dozen different organizations that all are associated with Antifa. It wouldn’t be too difficult for you to learn this yourself with just a little research. Yeah, I know – fake news and all that. But not everything on the internet is fake.
Glad to see Eric Clanton and Felarca arrested.
New Jersey calls them a terrorist organization.