Today, Attorney General Mark Herring announced that starting February 1, 2016 the Commonwealth of Virginia, that currently recognizes concealed carry permits from 30 states, will no longer recognize CCP’s from 25 of those states.
Liberals applaud, Republicans gnash their teeth
As could easily be predicted liberals are applauding this move. Meanwhile, Republicans in the House issued the following statements:
“The House of Delegates will immediately begin a careful review of the Attorney General’s findings,” said Speaker William J. Howell (R-Stafford). “Unfortunately, I have little doubt as to his true motivations. Despite promising to take politics out of the Attorney General’s office, Mark Herring consistently seeks to interpret and apply the law of the Commonwealth through the lens of his own personal, political opinions. He is damaging the integrity of the office he holds.”
“This is another Washington-style overreach from a nakedly partisan Attorney General,” said Delegate Rob Bell (R-Albemarle). “The Attorney General’s job is to faithfully interpret and enforce the law of the Commonwealth. Virginians who have concealed carry permits may lose the ability to protect themselves when traveling in 25 states. Instead of doing the job he was elected to do, Mark Herring continues to put the political goals of his liberal supporters ahead of sound legal judgement.”
Speaking about today’s announcement, Deputy Majority Leader Todd Gilbert (R-Shenandoah) said, “Attorney General Herring is endangering the lives of law-abiding Virginians as they travel for work, vacation or to visit their families. Virginia’s law on concealed carry reciprocity was created in 1997, when Democrats controlled both houses of the state legislature. This law gives State Police the discretion to determine the states with which Virginia should have reciprocity agreements based on consultation with the Attorney General’s office. There is no doubt in my mind, however, that the consultation provided by the Attorney General in this matter is based purely on his partisan, political goal of denying law-abiding citizens the right to protect and defend themselves.”
“People who lawfully carry a concealed firearm in Virginia want the confidence that when they travel to another state, that state recognizes the rights of Virginia citizens to protect themselves. The Attorney General’s unilateral action likely means that many of the 25 states involved in today’s announcement will no longer recognize the legal rights of Virginia citizens,” said Delegate L. Scott Lingamfelter (R-Prince William), Chairman of the House Committee on Militia, Police & Public Safety. “If the Attorney General was truly interested in safety and security, he would have sat down with these states and resolved any potential issues instead of pulling the rug from under the feet of law-abiding Virginia citizens.”
Under what authority?
When faced with government overreach (a common occurrence under AG Herring), the clarion call, BY WHAT AUTHORITY, sounds from the rafters. Well, um, Herring does not have authority…
Absent from the MSM articles is a reference to the statute Herring cites for his decision to nullify the CCP from 5 out of every six currently recognized states. Review the formal press release and you will find the following statute:
Va. Code § 18.2-308.014 which states in relevant part:
The Superintendent of State Police shall (a) in consultation with the Office of the Attorney General determine whether states meet the requirements and qualifications of this subsection [allowing reciprocity]…
Consultation, generally means a discussion but not a requirement.
AG Herring recognizes this in his press release:
To ensure Virginia’s law and safety standards for concealed handgun permits are applied evenly, consistently, and fairly, I have recommended the State Police terminate the reciprocity agreements with 25 states whose laws are not adequate to prevent issuance of a concealed handgun permit to individuals that Virginia would disqualify. The State Police has accepted that recommendation and has begun sending letters to the 25 states informing them that as of February 1, their permits will no longer be recognized by Virginia.
So we are missing a villain here. AG Herring gives the advice, makes the large public pronouncement and tries to take credit for curbing the Second Amendment. The Superintendent of the State Police Colonel W. Steven Flaherty rolls over like a bureaucratic shill for the AG’s office.
Colonel Flaherty has been in office since 2003. For twelve years under the current statute and the previous statute, Va. Code § 18.2-308(P) Colonel Flaherty in consultation with 6 different Virginia AG’s felt no need to curtail these rights like he is doing now. In fact, Virginia has formal written agreements with eleven states that are being unilaterally canceled by Virginia.
There is no press release on the Virginia State Police website and the “glory” of this announcement has been left to AG Herring.
Imagine how much power and influence Herring has when he can convince a career law enforcement officer to renege on 12 years of his accepted policy.
Virginians’ CCP will no longer be honored in Florida, Louisiana, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, and Wyoming as a result of Herring’s bullying, and Colonel Flaherty’s acquiescence.
Elections have consequences. Let’s make sure Herring returns to private practice in 2017…
[…] Christmas slumber, the outcry was deafening. Calls for recall or impeachment abounded. But I wondered why we focused on just Herring as Colonel W. Steven Flaherty was the one who actually… As it was apparent to me that Herring, in his attempt at personal aggrandizement, engaged in a […]
Apparently Federal law already prohibits 99% of those classes of persons Herring was purportedly concerned about from owning a firearm at all, let alone a concealed weapons permit. http://danaloeschradio.com/how-our-weak-foreign-policy-is-forcing-a-reconsideration-of-limited-governm
I think the AG needs to re-look reciprocity for out of state driver’s licenses while he’s at it. More out of state drivers have endangered Virginians than out of state concealed carry permit holders!
Let’s remember something here. VCDL has been trying for YEARS to get the GA to pass a universal reciprocity bill. As recently as last year with HB 1329. And year after year the Virginia Senate figures out a way not to pass it. With poison pill amendments or other parliamentary subterfuges. While Red Herring clearly overstepped his authority, the only reason he was able to do so was because of legislative malpractice being exercised by the Virginia Senate. Might as well face it: this was a gift handed to Herring.
Action Step 1) We all get Utah certified
Action Step 2) We all join VCDL
Action Step 3) We all throw at least $25 to the VCDL PAC
Action Step 4) We identify the wayward Senators
Action Step 5) We lean on them… Hard!
A most likely Republican Colonel, being “recommended” things by a Democratic Attorney General, who most likely has the support of a Democratic Governor who in turn, is the boss of, and has the power to replace said Republican Colonel….You do the math…#notrocketscience
Well that would add up to impeach or at least a blue ribbon task force investigatory commission.
… and this is EXACTLY WHY Virginians MUST DEMAND recall legislation for ALL elected Officials… so WE can remove THEM at our whim… unless you prefer the term peasant and to be told how to live YOUR life by the government… time to decide …. sheep/peasant or citizen… DEMAND RECALL LEGISLATION to remove wanna be dictators… contact YOUR legislators and don’t ask… tell them to enact this is they wish to remain in office…
Wait! We can’t recall?
Ok then, how about a good old-fashioned impeachment?
who is going to impeach… you are speaking about a political avenue… and we see the congress on the federal level doing exactly what with impeachment? just like in this state, and others… they are IMMUNE at present… the ONLY solution – force recall legislation in all states….at the state level, and make it include the federal legislature… so WE can fire THEM at our whim… unless of course, the term peasant is “fits”… and the next question… what was the good superintendent promised politically…. by the left….
We get to fire them every election, the fact that we don’t is a separate matter.
When they screw up on the job, our current tool is to impeach and public torment.
We can press for recall legislation — although I don’t want to give the SOB’s any more chances.
Paul Ryan needs to be addressed by his district, they are just as ticked as we are
I would Hazzard to say that out of state CCW permits factor very seldom in crimes and the criminals don’t care anyway. The only thing this does Is put law abiding citizens in danger. Their excuse is TOTAL BULLSHIT! To get my NC permit, I had to be finger printed, take a course that involved physical classroom time and range time, the normal background check, AND had to have the county psychiatrist check my medical records. This is much more then a person has to do in Va. This is a Red Herring. If I were still a resident of NC, I would certainly open carry in VA as opposed to leaving my loved ones unprotected as Virginia’s Governor and Attorney General desire! Wright your representatives NOW. Let’s also work on getting the Attorney General out of office. THE ONLY PEOPLE EFFECTED BY THIS ARE LAW ABIDING VIRGIANS!!!!
Steve, you are exactly right. To get a CWP in Virginia you must convince the state you have proficiency with a handgun. One of the accepted ways to do this is to produce a Hunter Education class. You can sit through this class and it will teach you the game laws, ethics of hunting and to be sure of your target and what lies beyond it. It does not test your shooting ability and very little of it concerns handguns except they tell you you may not hunt with a handgun having less than 350 foot pound of muzzle energy. You can complete the course without ever handling a gun It no way equips you to engage in any armed confrontation with a bad guy. This course is designed to promote hunting safety. Why it is an accepted measure of firearms proficiency escapes me. It sounds like NC is much more stringent in their CWP requirements. Smells pretty fishy to me.
NC passed a universal reciprocity law a few years ago; will be interesting to see how they respond to Virginia’s actions.
So I’m reading this as the AG directing the Col., and most likely backed up by the Gov. The Col. is about to retire. Do you think he is going to risk losing his pension by telling the AG and the Gov no?
I urge people to leave comments on the Virginia State Police Facebook page. There are numerous comments up already universally condemning Flaherty’s cowardly actions. https://www.facebook.com/VirginiaStatePolice/?fref=nf
BTW, I have only one disagreement with Paul here. Herring has been misinterpreting the law for quite some time now well before 2014.
I would suggest FB General Herring instead, their game is to pit us against our natural ally — Law Enforcement.
Also contact our delegates and senators expressing that we expect them to fix this.
I would think that carving up the AG budget until answers are gotten about what kind of expenditures were made on this effort — clearly he’s got more staff than sense.
If a man knows how to maintain claim to his standing in Ecclesiastical Law (God’s Law), and knows how to affirm and uphold the same in the Common Law, then know that no man has a need to have a concealed carry permit, let alone any other kind of permitting. Proof of this is still in the now existing Constitution of Virginia in the wording thus quoted from Article I, Section 13, “… the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” “Shall not be infringed” means that no General Assembly in Lawful assemblage can pass any law, statute, or regulation that prevents or hinders the enjoyment of said right. “Shall not be infringed” also means no government of Virginia can condition the right and do so Lawfully.
If you think that the above is nuts, then ask yourself this. Did George Washington, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson ever apply for any gun permit, let alone a concealed carry permit? The answer is no.
In concluding, the Bill of Rights of the organic Constitution of Virginia exists solely to uphold and affirm Unalienable Rights, as distinguished from the civil rights. The Unalienable Right is absolute, and not able to be conditioned. The civil right is the right given of the hand of the civil states, and accordingly may be conferred, withdrawn, or altered by the civil state that made the grant of right.
Pure and simple, the AG’s is acting in color of law. And if affirming and upholding Virginia’s Constitution means anything at all, it would appear that the AG has committed
So let’s retire him, what’s it take to get it on the ballot with one of our quarterly primaries?
Color of law?
Okay! Color of Law:
Color of law. The appearance or semblance, without the substance, of legal right. Misuse of power, possessed by virtue of state law and made possible
only because wrongdoer is clothed with authority of state, is action taken under “color of state law.” Black’s Law, 6th edition, 1990
You can search out the law definitions of color, color of law, color of office, color of title, and so forth, all very interesting reading. But in essence and to the my original post, a color of law practice of government is an illegal, unlawful, illegitimate, counterfeit administration of government.
Here is what Article I, Section 2 of the Constitution of Virgina says:
“That all power is vested in, and consequently derived from, the people,
that magistrates are their trustees and servants, and at all times
amenable to them.” (1. ‘amenable’ mean ‘responsible at all times’ to the people as the owners of government, and 2. the Public Law of a constitution trumps all else)
What I am getting at is this: would our argumentation against the AG and Governor be an argument in Law (based upon Ecclesiastic Law – Ten Commandments, Common Law by habit and custom, and by the organic constitutions, and in that order of hierarchy), then our complaints would be actionable in Law. Wrongdoing by the civil servant opens the civil servant to
complaint of malfeasance, maladministration of government, breach of
trust, breach of oath of office, just to mention a few. And since the civil magistrate is bonded, there is the matter of commercial liability.
Very often, we bark up the wrong side of the tree when Law would better serve.
I think it might be more sellable as Impeach or cut off his funding. As long as there is some kind of price paid for his misusing the office.
I am speaking to a wider across the board strategy, one in which the wrongdoing civil magistrate (judges, delegates, senators, executive office holders, etc.) is challenged publicly in all forums as to unlawful acts and enactments, specifically with adherence to the higher bodies of law.
The few times during which I have tested this approach (2 times in Richmond — 2 bills withdrawn; three times in local public forums), the strategy was very efficacious. Folks would come up to me after the meetings and remark that the senator or delegate in question didn’t really or couldn’t answer my questions. An appreciable number of folks appeared to recognize the authority of argument from the Law. I was quite surprised at this.
My experience tells me that politicians really get upset once they lose control of the conversation. The world would shift dramatically if four or five people would at each public event grill the civil magistrate as to what higher Law permits them to do.
The main problem is public education. We have been so dumbed down as a people that very often don’t know what we done know, but would serve us best. The good news is that some people are beginning to rediscover, to reclaim some lost knowledge.
Thanks for the conversation.
It is a CHP. And yes, there is a difference.
Thank you, squishy gop voters who either stayed at home or wasted your vote on sarvis. All 165 of you were the reason why this anti-constitutional lawbreaker is the AG.
That’s a winning comment right there – blame the voters you needed to convince and didn’t, rather than the party and candidates who failed to convince them.
To be more precise, we should blame the Republican (and conservative Independent) NON – voters who sat out that election. I know 10 people in my neighborhood alone who were “too busy” to vote that day or vote absentee.
I guess that 165 vote spread between Herring and Obenshain is really starting to hurt about now. As Paul points out in the title of this article, AG Herring has done a great job of misinterpreting or not standing by the law since 2014.
While many of us are mad as hell about it, the GA needs to get mad as hell and let the AG know he cannot trample the Virginia Constitution and our laws without tangible push-back from the legislative branch. Give him an inch on this issue, and no telling what he’ll do next.
Oh, if you don’t have a Utah Concealed Carry Permit, I suggest getting one. It will cover you in most of the states the AG is striking off our reciprocity list. Classes held weekly…
This should all be blamed on McDonnell driving a “borrowed” Ferrari, the conviction, HB 2313, the largest tax increase in Virginia history, Cuccinnelli staying in a “borrowed” house.
Easily costing Obenshaine 165 votes, but more than likely, thousands.
And now, the Omnibus comedy.
Run whoever you want. The problem is the Repulican party screwing the middle-class, not the candidate. Corporate owned and controlled.
Anybody notice the smile Hillary had on here face Saturday night?
You people got nobody to blame but yourself for Herring.
Must be mighty nice at the top of righteous mountain on pompous island.
Nothing can ever ‘all be blamed’ on anything — I blame you for not fixing the GOP before it got to where it is.
Seems like we always get screwed when we ‘cooperate’ our nominations rather than contesting them.
So you just going to blow sunshine?
Unless they’re willing to shut down state government, the General Assembly is impotent to solve this because they can’t override a McAuliffe veto.
Cut off the AG budget, show the Congress how you treat an unruly executive.
Which will get vetoed, and which the GA is unable to override. You’re proving my point.
Probably, but the pain can be illustrative.
And by all appearances unwilling to try. There is a strong case to be made for fighting even if you do lose. At least it rallies your proponents and shows them that you’re willing to take a stand.
Maybe. But politics is the art of the possible. Fighting for something only for the sake of fighting is as likely to be useless or counterproductive as it is to help.
Our representatives in the GA are our voice and should use every power of the legislative branch to fix this. Force the governor to use his veto pen and go on the record with voters. Believe it or not there are a lot of Dems with concealed carry permits that are not happy about this.
You’ve heard the term “aim high, hit high”? Unfortunately the gop motto would appear to be “aim low, get nothing.” Of course politics is the art of the possible, but you also make your own possibilities.
They can with a few Dems on board. Gun rights often produce unlikely alliances.
a sleeping giant has been awakened…..this will not bode well for democrats
We’ll see. Unfortunately for the VA GOP, they can’t wash their hands of the fact that VCDL has been trying to get a legislative fix for the reciprocity issue for years. And it’s never been important enough for the GOP controlled Virginia Senate to actually pass a bill despite numerous attempts to do so. It always seems to be just a little too difficult….
Name names, if we’re being screwed by our GOP, let’s address that in the hustings.
It’ll take some followup. I don’t remember offhand who offered the amendment that killed it last year. It was bounced from Courts of Justice to Finance and then killed by the house because of the amendment. Same dance, different choreography.
If the Virginia GOP does not find a way to reverse this egregious attack on gun owners, the Virginia GOP will show that, like it’s national counterpart, it intends to be nothing but a lubricant in the rape of American freedom.
But it will bode well for gun dealers! Actions like this always send gun sales through the roof, which no doubt aggravates the liberals.
My lifelong home of Virginia deserves to lose tourist dollars because of this. mccaullife, northam, and especially herring are a disgrace.
let’s get together & elect Rob Bell.
Rob Bell, and every other member of the House, save two, voted for the legislation underwhich Herring acted.
To put it another way, it passed 98-0 in 2013 under at least most of the current crop of House Republicans. See http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter7/section18.2-308.014/ (the law) & http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?131+sum+HB1833 (the bill that enacted it).
Let’s get together and primary Paul Ryan for the Omnibus bill. Take the party back.
I see twenty items under § 18.2-308.09 – “Disqualifications for a concealed handgun permit” and nothing in that section or related code sections giving him authorization to disqualify based on intrastate code adherence or lack thereof. I also fail to see exactly what portion of the twenty-five individual states’ code led to his judgement of disqualification based on § 18.2-308.09 on a state by state basis. If this is in fact creating new law vs interpretation of statute then I would think the GA could set this aside in lieu of any ruling by the state supreme court. The only proviso is that the GA has let him skate on rulings like this in the past have they not?
I’m disappointed in Col. Flaherty. Now he will have fewer “good guys with guns” to help him out accross the Commonwealth.
Those who don’t like politics in the AG’s office shouldn’t just elect someone from the other party (see Cuccinelli). They should support amending the Virginia Constitution to move the office back to the judicial branch and make it at least somewhat nonpartisan. It may be futile to try to separate politics and law entirely, but you’re certainly never going to get there as long as the office is elected and officially partisan in nature.
There’s Politics, and then there’s crossing the line like this. The position is fine where it is, the issue is with the guy occupying the position. This is a purely political move, it deserves a purely political response.
Because politics is OK but when your side loses, that crosses the line?
The issue I was raising isn’t whether a political response is appropriate. Political responses are inevitable and immediate these days — and will be useless until Republicans can capture the governor’s office again. The issue I was raising is what might be done to limit political influence on the office. Electing a Republican isn’t a solution to politics in the office.
The top law talker should be elected rather than part of an unelected bureaucracy.
Any adventurism that crosses the line should be frowned upon. The judgement of these elected should be better.
This is grandstanding that requires a smackdown at the highest level. I’m thinking recall attempt would be sufficient heat — how mad are we?
Absolute BullShit – nothing less. Sorry if this language offends, but sometimes profanity is called for. This affects the ability of my USMC son in-law to protect his family with his concealed weapon while travelling to Virginia to visit my family.
But he’s such a nice guy… Screw it, activate the recall squads.
Wow, we get to pick from either the Omnibus party or the Herring party?
Sorta like getting to pick between stepping either into camel shut or cow shut.
Only 2 of our reps voted omnibus, so I’d give us a 5/7 rating.
Either way, VA gets it coming or going, why not try something different?
Trump is a cross between Teddy Roosevelt and Andrew Jackson — can the populist side make up for the progressive side?
Remember our seal — is there a Tyrant lurking inside Trump?
Will the treatment be worse than the illness?
Once he mops the floor with Hilary or Biden, is he going to screw with our liberties as well? (Trump pen and phone could be more effective — a good thing?)
Mark Herring’s Assault on the 2nd Amendment – http://eepurl.com/bKKypf
Link to a donate page, please do better
Herring disgusts me for all the reasons stated here. Our next AG, Rob Bell, says it best, “This is another Washington-style overreach from a nakedly partisan Attorney General.” Herring just lies, lies, lies, and deceives. He’s a complete liberal shill and an embarrassment to Leesburg and the Commonwealth. I see him walking around downtown every now and then and have previously been tempted to tell him how bad he sucks at his job. I think next time I see him, I will.
Yell at these effers and let them know they have unleashed an unanticipated fury. We have been too nice to this crowd for far too long. We need to treat them like the freedom-robbing ass holes that they are.
It may be harder to use better vocabulary in the passion of the exchange, but nothing kills debate faster than streams of cussing and profanity. Hard to be persuasive past the language — this is not how we conduct ourselves.
This is a time to throw your Marquis of Queensbury Rules out the window. As I have said, we have played the role of the gentleman for far too long. It has gotten us nowhere.
Ok. Let’s cuss for a while to show we’re angry. We’re on a public forum and we’re just ooooh so mad!
I am a member of Oath Keepers. I am sure out state president is cooking up something in coordination with other gun-rights and constitutional rights advocacy groups for a large protest in Richmond. Social media is buzzing like a frenzied hornet’s nest. I am an activist. I supported AFP and knocked on 1300 doors to help defeat Obamacare in VA. I will do likewise to fight this. I am not the type who just sits on his arse.
Bring it to downtown Leesburg since Herring lives here and it will have a more dramatic effect since this is a smaller town than Richmond and on the edge of the DC market, so it will get good press coverage. I can’t remember us ever having a protest rally more than 100 people.
I like that idea.
Rally starting the recall, give people an objective, and a target.
There is no “recall” of elected officials in Virginia.
Yes there is. The local Democrats tried unsuccessfully to recall one of our Republican Supervisors last year.
Trust me, there’s no law for recall in Virginia…there’s §24.2-233, where you can petition a court to remove an elected official, but a recall is an election process and we don’t have such a process in Virginia.
Great, we get a primary every time the State Chair sneezes but when we really need a recall, there’s never one around.
So let’s go to impeach to incentivize a recall law.
Well, you wouldn’t want the General Assembly to give voters the power to relieve one of them of their office, would you?
Upon further reflection and a cooler head, I’m no longer that fired up for a recall. But we should try to pursue the avenues we have.
I can see this misused, so I’m reluctant to go to that when we can make the GA fix it.
What is Herring’s game with this? Why this? Why now? Does he want some kind of response? What manner of Bre’r Patch are we experiencing? Im noticing the social media about this, the outrage about the omnibus, the background noise of this or that mall/school closing. Steady drumbeats. I can’t help but think we’re being ratcheted up to something like a Fort Sumpter moment. There is something between sitting on our posteriors and being urged towards a football held by our adversaries. I’m inclined to go toward Recall just because.