In a shocking vote today Barbara Comstock voted with the three democrats from Virginia to fully fund Department of Homeland Security through September 30, 2015. Other than Comstock, all Republican Congressmen from Virginia voted against the bill. [read_more]Of course John Boehner voted for the bill, along with Debbie Wasserman Shultz.
Comstock issued the following press release:
“President Obama’s misguided foreign policy that rewards our enemies and slights our allies has created an unstable world. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reminded all of us of that today in the House. I voted today to fund the Department of Homeland Security because we must continue to protect our borders, air travel, and ports with the dedicated employees that work tirelessly each and every day to keep America safe in this dangerous world.
“I fundamentally disagree with President Obama’s constitutional overreach on immigration. This bill contains no funding to carry out the unilateral actions by President Obama on immigration.
“Twenty-six states have taken legal action against President Obama’s constitutional overreach and are currently challenging the constitutionality of his action. I support these efforts and a federal court has stepped-in to temporary halt the President’s constitutional overreach. President Obama himself said that he could not take this constitutional overreach twenty-two times before he did it. I also oppose the Senate’s irresponsible refusal to take this debate to a Conference Committee on the House pass bill that I voted for in January. I will continue to fight this overreach but doing it through the Department of Homeland Security funding bill was not the path at this time.”
The measure will not target Obama’s executive actions on immigration, giving Democrats what they have long demanded and potentially enraging conservatives bent on fighting the president on immigration.
It is maddening when a Republican Congressman gives the democrats what they have “long demanded”, and yes, conservatives are enraged.
Congressman Comstock’s vote is appalling and an example of exactly why Republicans in Virginia need local conventions to nominate our candidates. If Comstock continues down the path of voting with democrats, and cozying up to Eric Cantor and John Boehner, Republicans in the 10th district will be able to choose her replacement in a convention in 2016. Barbara Comstock will be waving good-bye, as she is in the accompanying photograph.
92 comments
I am told that Barbara Comstock is voting with the democrats to replace American workers with foreign cheaper labor and displace American workers. This is happening at Disney and all over this country. Let me tell you, I work for a major Airline that is replacing its workers by the thousands and hiring immigrant workers cheaper. This is not only wrong but dangerous. Myself, my 18 year old daughter, and my husband all volunteered with her campaign. The first vote in our adult like that we are really feeling might have been very wrong. If she supports this kind of immigration policy, she does not represent hard working Americans. I am so very disappointed. She will never get my time or vote again.
Barbara, I’m extremely disappointed by your vote to fund executive amnesty. My reason for voting for you, and that of everyone I’ve talked to about it, was based on our perception that you possessed strong conviction as as real conservative. I guess were wrong. Maybe it’s a good thing that you were only elected for two years. Many more votes like that and you won’t be there for another tea.
Comstock couldn’t be cozying up to Cantor…he’s no longer in the House.
Perhaps you missed this,http://thebullelephant.com/cantor-comstock-launch-mainstream-organization-for-reclaiming-the-elephant/
Indeed, I did miss that. Thank you.
[…] The Bull Elephant disagrees, with TWO posts knocking the vote, one from Jeanine Martin: […]
I hope folks write this down and remember it.
So glad to say that I voted a straight Republican ticket in the last election EXCEPT FOR COMSTOCK.
She is a SHILL FOR Darwinian CORPORATIONS. Darwinian Corporations are NOT the viable businesses which will contribute to the prosperity of US Citizens. These type of Corporations ONLY BENEFIT Executives and Boards at the expense of not just low income workers but increasingly at the expense of Professional workers also. If you don’t believe this, your turn is coming.
The US has a predominate number of businesses which are dead wood to the REAL economy, not the “economy” Obama AND the Corporate Shills are touting. The Dead Economy is recycling Free money from the Fed into endless rounds of stock buybacks goosing the market and increasing the 1 + 5 Percenters (and there are MANY OF THESE in our District). She represents only their interests;not the interests of middle class citizens.
I called her office during the voting on these Bills. I reminded her not to expect continuing votes coming her way if she voted for the Republicans who want the cheap labor of legal Illegals to continue to suppress wages for the 95%. This entire philosophy will make some individuals rich at the expense of the rest of the Country’s workers, culture, and eventually will create the very Welfare State which they don’t want and neither do most Republicans.
This Benedict Arnold needs to be removed from office Pronto!
I don’t think the problem is Comstock voting “yea” in that as a politician her first priority is to get re-elected. It’s the fact that 74 other Republicans (almost 1/3 of those Republicans voting) also voted “yea”. That’s the real betrayal.
That being said, don’t count on me knocking on doors for her again — I’ll stick with the precincts in my own representative’s (Wittman) district.
This was so absolutely predictable it’s no surprise at all. She was the
only one in the primary race who refused to speak to Tea Party groups or
attend any of their meetings to answer questions. She is only after her
own greedy political ambitions and she’ll do anything to please Boehner
and the Republican establishment. She will have to be challenged and
defeated for the Republican nomination in 2016. Let’s do what it takes
to make that happen.
This is another terrible disappointment for northern Virginians who fought hard to put Barbara Comstock in office. The Boehner connection must be the reason, but a bad one. We elected you to take it to Obama, and you’re caving like all the others. DHS is not going to shut down, but the illegal immigration will continue.
She did say, during the campaign, that she would avoid furloughs. I don’t think a democratic candidate would have done anything different. And who was there to counter Foust? She needs pre-emptive feedback from her constituents. Don’t take anything for granted.
Comstock is talking out of both sides of her mouth. Her vote proves that she supports lawlessness, and rewarding five million aliens with work permits, social security numbers and eventually trillions in entitlements.
Comstock should face a primary challenge which like Cantor, she well might lose.
I’m a gay democrat and voted for Barbara on this issue alone. If I had known that she didn’t stand for the American worker I would have voted for Foust. Look for her to be out championing Obama’s free trade agreement which results in even more job loses. Wonder if she knows that when the IT workers in her district are replaced by visa holders they won’t be voting for her. Nor will the visa holder. One term Barbara!
I was unpleasantly surprised by her vote. I live in the 10th Virginia district. I understand her vote. Dulles Airport is nearby our district. So are several offices that support DHS. My guess is there was a lot of pressure applied by people who might be adversely effected should DHS funding be scrapped. Not merely government employees, but contract staff as well. Ms. Comstock, you can’t expect everyone else to do the fighting for you.
[…] The Bull Elephant disagrees, with TWO posts knocking the vote, one from Jeanine Martin: […]
[…] The Bull Elephant disagrees, with TWO posts knocking the vote, one from Jeanine Martin: […]
[…] a whole new level of hatred and vitriol. Their columnist Jeanine Martin wrote a piece entitled, “Barbara Comstock votes with Democrats to fund DHS through August.” I don’t want to give Ms. Martin’s post the publicity it so desperately wants but one […]
Attacking a hard working conservative like Barbara in a swing district is not wise. Our party did all we could to stop the President’s constitutionally-suspect (as a federal judge in Texas said) executive order, but let’s face it: we didn’t have the votes to stop a Democrat filibuster in the Senate and send a bill to the President’s desk. We fought this battle, we’ll have another chance in the presidential election in 2016. Do we really want to shut down DHS at a time when terror threats against our nation are so high? We are the party of a strong national defense (one of the few things our federal government IS required to do under the Constitution), and now is not the time to weaken that.
If we can’t stand up and defend a clean bill, a bill that funds everything BUT the President’s illegal actions, if we have to cave on even that, we are done. Even owning both houses of Congress means we get nothing. I thought Congress had SOME control over the spending purse and it could be used as as leverage over Obama’s illegal actions but apparently not. This sends Obama a very clear message, “Do whatever you want, Congress will always roll over and give you whatever you want”. Why did we work so hard to elect Republicans to Congress if they are going to do nothing to stop Obama? And now you say we have to wait TWO MORE YEARS, we must tolerate Obama’s illegal actions for TWO MORE YEARS because Republicans can’t stand up to him and refuse to fund his Constitutionally illegal acts? Count me out.
Jeanine, great topic!
Now, you and others may be beginning to see how I got where I am? I did not get here overnight.
Why do we need Barbara or any congressional representatives? All we need is a President with a “phone and a pen”. I will not only not vote for Barbara again, I will actively encourage friends and family to follow my lead. Call me “Gone Girl”.
Bullshit, Estrada. Defunding until the dictator stopped illegal amnesty was the answer. Given that the caliph intends on granting about 11-25 million illegals the vote, 2016 is a foregone conclusion, clown. But cowards like you will always try to find a way out. Commieshit (aka Comstock) was always a worthless beltway bandit RINO politician. Just like you.
McConnel and Boehner are too cute by half. It was a Bait and Switch for their REAL constituency: Central Bankers and Cheap Labor advocates.
The fight is over. Voting not to fund the DHS would not stop the amnesty. And there are lots of DHS employees in the district.
That excuse just isn’t going to cut it. Sorry.
Jeanine: You make good sense. Please consider elective office.
LOL
How many of those employees would object to some paid leave? That’s not an excuse for Barbara to fund an unconstitutional act by the President.
Republicans have no guts, no profiles in courage in our party, with the exception of Dave Brat.
If this blog spent half as much time building up republicans as it does trashing them, we would be in a much better place. Comstock, Schoeneman, Williams, Herrity, the entire FCRC executive committee–all have been target of this blog’s poo flinging machine. What a shame.
What a shame we have so many Republicans who don’t follow the Republican creed and take votes against the best interests of their constituents. When that happens, expect us to call them on it.
Invoking the Creed is an odd choice here. I’m pretty sure that not bankrupting the DHS is in line with “That peace is best preserved through a strong national defense”.
Moreover, I don’t see immigration anywhere in the VA Republican Creed. Based on the flare-ups on the blogs over the last few years, it’s easy to see why: committed conservatives don’t always agree on the issue. For every Greg Letiecq, you have a Stephen Hollingshead, who said when running for Congress:
“Children of “illegal immigrants” are citizens of the U.S., according to the Constitution… I don’t think anybody is saying we’re going to deport parents of citizens of the U.S,”
Yet though I’m sure you disagree with him, you’re still able to support him for State Senate.
Then, what happens when you have women coming into this country 8 months and 29 days pregnant, knowing full well, that if they can just have the baby on this side the border, they will also get to stay? And get the bene’s.
Your logic appears fouled. Maybe somebody could get a SCOTUS ruling that says what the Founding Fathers actually intended? Has that been tried?
We spend twice as much time promoting Republicans as we do criticizing them. If you spent half as much time reading what we write as you do coming up with half wit anonymous attacks, you’d know that.
Steve, what positive thing has TBE said about Congressman Robert Hurt?
He voted the right way on the CRomnibus, along with Wittman, Griffith, and Brat.
Hey NBE – if members of the GOP actually legislated and led as they CAMPAIGNED, then we would not have to trash them. No backbone and no principles will get you derision and scorn. And they deserve it.
don’t forget, they’ve had negative things to say about 5CD Cong Robert Hurt too. & of course, in a flagrant display of anti-semiticism, they trashed Eric Cantor to hell & back.
Please show us where we EVER said anything about Eric Cantor’s religious faith. We didn’t. You know it and so does everyone else. We criticized Eric for many of his political actions, but never, ever, his religion.
Looking forward to you screaming “RACIST” in your next comment now that you’ve gone down this ridiculous path. You democrats say the craziest things when disagreed with.
now I’m a Democrat?
is this an outreach comment?
You’re not a democrat? Who knew?
When did I get assigned outreach?
it is the responsibility of all Republicans to try to attract more members. if that is indeed what you want.
Are you saying that every Republican must support everything a Jewish Congressman does, solely because he’s Jewish? If we don’t then we’re anti-semitic? Must we also agree with everything a Black President does or we’re racist? I think I see where this is going. Am I now opposing Barbara’s vote because I’m a misogynist? I don’t think that’s gonna work for you.
“Flagrant display of anti-semiticism[sic]”? What in the world are you talking about?!? And where have we ever trashed Cantor? I personally have never had a negative thing to say about him except for the involvement with slating. Others, as far as I can recollect, criticized him for certain policy stances. If you’re a sensitive little flower you might call that “trashing” him, but nowhere is there anything remotely resembling antisemitism in a critique of Cantor to be found published by this site.
yes, i did misspell anti-semitism.
I agree, cantor was the darling, even though he was a RINO thru and thru. I hope you all will support Dave as well.
Wait…Kate? Cuccinelli lost because the Republican Party of Virginia stopped funding him months before the election. He came as close to winning as he did in spite of them. Imagine what he could have done with the kind of funding McDonald had the election before. I think they gave him a third. See we are supposed to rally our big tent behind the candidate, unless he is a “tea party” type, and then, there is that dirty word again….if the conservative wins the primary then the support is different.
It amazes me that people actually think this re: RPV and fundraising.
Newsflash: the RPV is not the fundraising arm of the gubernatorial candidate. They don’t control the money faucet. They didn’t for Bob and they didn’t for Ken. It’s on the CANDIDATE to raise money.
That’s why all of us pro-primary people are out here saying it might not be a good idea to, say, nominate for U.S. Senate a guy who could barely raise $30,000 for the convention.
Why did Cuccinelli have $300k cash on hand the day after the election?
Are you sure that it was not like $600k?
dumb question. If RPV couldn’t fund Cuccinelli, why didn’t he just raise the funds himself? it was a high profile election.
There is now officially no reason to vote republican as they are just like the democrats. What difference does it make? I am done. I am now a libertarian. Won’t all of you join me in leaving the grand old party?
@ Matt Hall – I have co-led the Stafford County Tea Party group for nearly six years. Steve Albertson has never attended a single one of our meetings.
I confess to having attended many Tea Party meetings and I never miss a meeting of Loudoun County Republican Committee. But Steve is ALL about the Republican Party and not a part of the Tea Party.
One and done. She’ll be a one-hit wonder. And she knows it too. Barbara was our rising star and darling at the Dec. Advance; she got our rousing standing ovation. One short month later at Pat Mullins good-bye luncheon, she didn’t even bother working the room – because she knew our ardor had quickly cooled after she voted lock-step with Boehner.
Freshman trepidation?! Ask Congressman Dave Brat where he gets HIS courage. Answer: his principles. Too bad Barbara has none.
I shamefacedly admit – I drank the Kool-aid and bought into her “grassroots” hype. Bob Marshall was the better and truer Conservative.
Dave Brat also doesn’t have 100,000 federal works/contractors in his district. Makes those votes a little easier for him.
How many of those work for DHS? How many would care if they had a few weeks of paid leave?
Picking a fight over DHS was foolish, to be honest. It’s hard to build sympathy when your shutting down an agency that overseas customs, border patrol, the coast guard, and other essential functions. Respect the spirit of the fight, but this was one that was never going to be won. It just wasn’t.
Other than coast guard would anyone notice a DHS shutdown?
I agree something like EPA would be better. But every other Republican Congressman voted the right way. It’s not that difficult. She could have voted in a way that would represent her district and the bill would still have passed. Not rocket science here.
with all those federal workers, I think that’s exactly what she was doing.
83% of DHS employees would continue to work because they are deemed essential and that includes customs, border patrol, and the Coast Guard. The Reps refused to fight the amnesty issue by passing the budget for the fiscal year except for DHS. We were promised that they would fight Obama on his unconstitutional action that takes jobs from American workers and depresses wages. Comstock is a traitor.
If the Republicans acted and voted as real Republicans there would be no need for the Tea Party. Hence the name RINO. There is a Republican Creed, but for some reason some Pubbies just seem to choke on its words. Like Democrats feel about the Constitution. What’s a girl supposed to think when a Republican goes all wobbly?
I actually disagree with Comstock’s vote on this one. I just disagree even more with the horrendous conclusion that we should use a convention.
Fun fact: if Bob Marshall were the nominee, Congressman John Foust (D-VA) would vote with DWS 100% of the time.
Mic Drop. Great comment Stephen.
As my Hero and the Greatest President once said, “There you go again.”
And let me Clear the air here, I have NEVER worked for Mrs. Comstock, Ive only met her twice. I live in Roanoke almost 200 miles away.
But let me say this. Mrs. Martin has continued to harp and gripe and badmouth Republicans. Want to heal the party? Stop the nonsense of Jeanine Martin, the Bull Elephant who continue to always threaten every single Republican every time they dont “VOTE THE TEA PARTY WAY.” Threats are never kind. This is hardly a vote that deserves a primary challenge. Its a vote to make sure our airports stay open and our country stays safe. The Tea Party is clueless to governing. They would shut down the entire government until Obama is out of office just so they could have their way. Governing is essential, even when you dont get your way.
Do I like the bill? no. Am I happy that my Congressman (quite honestly surprised) voted against it? Yes.
That all being said, I am happy that Barbara is in Congress. She does a great job and is a very intelligent thoughtful leader in the Virginia Republican Party. Mrs. Martin, I am saddened and angry to see you write such hateful and false things about a great leader like Congresswoman Comstock.
While in the Virginia GA, did Comstock ever see a massive budget increase that she did not like? What did she do in the Virgina GA to earn a promotion?
You mean when she voted against the transportation bill and never once raised taxes on Virginians? She earned the promotion by working hard, impressing constituents, and helping enact common-sense conservative legislation to help her district.
When a legislator votes for budget increases many times higher than the cost of living index, or inflationary indicators, just where is the money going to come from?
A tax increase, that’s where. No, she didn’t vote for Howell Bill 2313.
But tell us, didn’t she vote for the absolutely massive budget increases that bring about massive tax increases?
Yes or No? What budget did she vote no on?
Yeah, if Comstock can’t get credit for voting against the transportation bill as the only Republican in Virginia with precincts inside the Beltway, I don’t know what we’re doing here.
And more to the point, she earned the promotion to Congress the same way she earned her House of Delegates seat: by appealing to voters and working her ass off on the campaign trail. That’s how she won the nomination in a landslide (with a party-run process) and how she won by 18 points in the general in a 50/50 district.
Excellent points, Spiker. What are the odds that with votes like this she wins by 18 points next time?
You say you’re against the vote she took. How many more like it would it take for you to support a challenge to her for the nomination? Is there such a number? Or do you just support all incumbents no matter what who have an R next to their name? (For the record, I don’t think your answer would be “yes,” and I’m honestly not trying to be combative. I was as big a cheerleader for Barbara as anyone last year. I just don’t get the reluctance to call out elected officials who vote in ways contrary to the beliefs of most of the people who nominated them).
I’m not looking for Comstock to be an ideologue, and not all votes are weighted equally. So I really can’t say “how many votes it would take”, only that its nowhere close to where we’re at. And even if I did, I would never ever support a convention. There is literally not one good reason to ever use one to choose a nominee.
Fair enough.
Take notice, as usual, let’s give Congressman Rob Wittman credit for getting it right again.
Great job Congressman!
As someone who never supported Comstock and actively opposed her run in our local primary I have to say most of these comments seem to be dancing around the critical point and that regards the larger context of her vote and its support for the process of constitutional governance and Obama’s usage of the executive administrative order to circumvent the elected legislative branch. She and her justifiers can spout all the Democratic talking points she wants and join Speaker Boehner’s shrinking minority leadership team huddling in defensive mode, but in likely the most important vote of her life, she not only failed her constituents but she failed the Republic. All of her Virginia colleagues and 187 of her fellow house members were not confused and most of the comments on this blog defending her behavior given that context are worse then nonsense they are blind to what the real issue is and what the lack of opposition and therefore tacit support of it’s continuance means for the citizens of this nation
Yes! Great comment Lawrence. Comstock violated her oath of office when she voted to fund Obama’s illegal and unconstitutional acts.
Matt, what was “hateful and false” about our great leader in this post? I’ve been a big fan of Barbara’s, but, as you say, I don’t like this vote. What about Jeanine Martin’s anger concerning this vote is out of bounds? Shouldn’t Barbara know that when she votes this way–when it is so far out of step with the people who sent her there–that there will be some folks who won’t forget it? I don’t get the kneejerk rejection of criticism when you yourself also disagree.
And where the hell is this “TEA PARTY” nonsense coming from? If you want the tea party view, I suggest you visit other sites. VARight is a good one. This site, as the name clearly implies, is a Republican one, through and through.
Ill eat my shoes, and trust me they are a size 13 wide, if you think your website isnt a Tea Party website first of all. This site has spread more vitriol about Republicans than ever before. You dont stand with the Republicans, you just gripe about everyone except Susan Stimpson and Dave Brat.
Second, the threat is what made me comment. You can be mad when she votes the wrong way, but to word it in a way so Barbara is scared of a blog and its readers is a cheapshot. I dont threaten to primary my Congressman every time he takes a bad vote. And I dont always agree with Bob.
No One, and I mean No one agrees all the time. My wife doesnt agree with me 60% of the time. Dont threaten people when they make a bad mistake. It was a classless cheapshot to do so.
Open wide and commence to chewing, big boy. I’ve been a Republican since Reagan ran against Carter. I’ve never been to a Tea Party meeting, and still have two bumper stickers on my car: Veterans for Romney and Ed Gillespie for Governor. No one was a bigger cheerleader for Barbara Comstock last year than me, and I’ve endorsed and contributed to a legislator who voted to raise my taxes in 2013. What part of that spells Tea Party? Nothing. I’m a conservative Republican, just like I’ve always been since way before there was ever a tea party.
“Vitriol?” Vitriol is when you call names and use tea party like an expletive, just like the liberal left. Protesting a vote or series of votes or other behaviors by elected officials when they stray from what got them elected is not vitriol. It’s called good citizenship.
And you completely dodged my question: what was “hateful and false” about our great leader in this post?
The anti tea party rage is just plain sad. Remove “tea party” and insert “republican party of Virginia creed”. As someone else stated perfectly above, there wouldn’t be a tea party if the republicans acted in accordance with their stated creed/platform.
You’ll note Steve, that folks just have to pull out the tea party “insult” because they can’t find anything legitimate to use against you.
tea·party
ˈtēpartē/
adjective
1.
(of a person or their behavior) acting in accordance with morality and showing recognition of right and wrong.
synonyms:moral, ethical, virtuous, righteous, upright, upstanding, high-minded,honorable, honest, incorruptible
“he is clearly the most tea party among the candidates
2.
honest, principled
Silly nonsense, you seem to generate more then your share of these type of comments can you distinguish between critical comment and dross? I have my doubts.
This is probably the most important vote Barbara will ever make and she got it wrong. We will never be the same country again. I mean to remind Barbara of this vote.
I do not know why this is even newsworthy? How many times did I tell you Comstock was a Liberal? How long before buying a cup of coffee is news?
We need to also protect our borders from illegal’s. Politicians say a it’s not a child’s fault that they were born here, and their parents are here illegally.
Well, let me tell you this. It is not the poor and middle-class fault either. Stop the employer from hiring them. Save American jobs.
Gee, did I just say vote Democrat?
Democrats want to end illegal immigration? They want laws to stop employers from hiring illegals? Who knew?
I believe they do want those things. However, they want something else even more? Their millions of votes!
By the way, if the Republican’s want those things, why haven’t they put legislation on Obama’s desk? Because they want the cheap labor.
Soon the Presidential election attacks will start, and the base will forget about immigration. Because hate radio owns their minds…..
In the end, Romney’s back!
Her statement speaks for itself. She “voted today to fund the Department of Homeland Security because we must continue to protect our borders, air travel, and ports with the dedicated employees that work tirelessly each and every day to keep America safe in this dangerous world.” Obviously reasonable people in our party disagreed on this, but to suggest that her vote (joined by 74 other Republicans) to continue funding our vital national security means she’s cozying up to Democrats is ridiculous.
The last time the government shutdown, the party was damaged and because the shutdown was so successfully pinned on Republicans, it almost certainly cost Cuccinelli the election. Shutdowns have consequences. The bill was far from perfect – but as they say “Don’t let perfect be the enemy of the good.” DHS funding is very important, and unfortunately, Congressional Republicans must occasionally compromise with Democrats to get necessary legislation and budgets passed. The immigration action is already being challenged in court, something she has and will continue to support.
Nothing like having a Comstock “operative” come in here to purify the air, now is it?
One wonders how long before Brian Schoeneman comes smiling into TBE carrying a can of aid freshener?
I know you got a laugh out of this Jeanine!
I’m sure Brian’s chomping at the bit to post all over the internet telling us sbout this wonderful vote that Barbara took today. Maybe one of his little minions will be along shortly.
Kate, the choice between protecting “our borders, air travel, and ports” and de-funding an unconstitutional policy with lasting ramifications on the health of our Republic is a false one. Boehner and most other Republicans who voted with him knew this, as did the vast majority of Republicans who voted against it. Barbara came out on the wrong side.
You’re ignoring the reality of the process. Senate Dems would have continued the filibuster until they got their way – and the shutdown would have been blamed on Republicans if they refused to pass the bill.
Yeah, so we may as cave early and often if Democrats don’t like the bill and will filibuster. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
The logic of surrender before the fight. I’m not sure this type of thinking is even worth being called moral ambiguity. Pitiful.