Repeal Obamacare Now

written by TBE Staff March 10, 2017

TBE Staff

Posts by The Bull Elephant Staff contain news of general interest and/or a consensus opinion of our contributors, but do not necessarily reflect the views of each member of the TBE community.

✝️ 804hokie 🇺🇸

Hear, Hear! To EVERY Republican in D.C. I say “No guts, no glory”

We’re tired of being continually let down, to placate political business and the status quo, as usual.
- Rocinante
  
  Apparently the lessons of the last election didn’t take with the ‘business as usual’ Republicans.
  
  … and we’re all out of Bubblegum.
Lawrence Wood

Repeal without a replacement (not existing legislation amendment but replacement) is just a hew and cry call for chaos in the national healthcare market and turning the tendencies of predation already existing in the corporate insurance industry loose on 11.4 million mostly lower and working class poor American’s current covered under existing Obamacare policies through no fault of their own beside government mandated financial penalties. Nothing can be torn down until a process is put in place to manage the fallout. I will hopefully then assume that your hyperbole in calling for repeal now is just that and realizes that a policy structure must be put in place to shore up this inevitable Obamacare fallout. Otherwise this isn’t a call to the will of the people but to the mob.
- Rocinante
  
  Rand Paul plan works for me.
  - Lawrence Wood
    
    He is the only one that is making any real sense here for those that actually listen to what he is proposing rather then just what they want to hear. He VERY clearly states separate the repeal from the replace legislation but open the replace debate immediately (with the obvious pressures on Congress to preform and deliver a post Obamacare support solution). The repeal legislation is currently in place that both House and the Senate has already agreed upon and passed in previous sessions. Clean and simple
    
    This is the exact opposite of the Ryan approach which places both repeal and replace in the same legislation loaded with complex language and special provisos a la his love of the omnibus approach. It’s a special interest smorgasbord regardless of his power point presentation or not. That Trump even bought into using this as a base to negotiate from is disappointing to me personally. We can NOT lose sight of the fact that ANY repeal must have a immediate replace bridge to provide Americans a way to transition to the new policy Stripping up to 15 million Americans of their health care as the Ryan plan would do is completely unacceptable to me. They didn’t create this mess Obama and the Democrats did.
    
    Repeal slogans are great for protests and media sixty second talking points but this is where the policy rubber hit the road. Trump needs to listen to Sen Paul and immediately get Bobby Jindal on staff one of if not the best healthcare policy guy in the nation. Her was not a trump supporter by the president seems to have placed several of those around him and Bobby could bring real value to the administration immediately that looks to me short on real healthcare expertise.
- Warmac9999
  
  There was no Obamacare ten years ago yet somehow we survived. Get rid of it and do it independent of replace. Then let the market sort things out with minimal government interference. Somehow we make these socialist entitlements into immortal institutions and the politicians, being driven by re-election, are too cowardly to really stop the mistakes. Obamacare lite, or ryancare, is an example of the calumny of the politicians.
  - Lawrence Wood
    
    What market are you referring to exactly? If it’s that free and open competitive American commercial marketplace you are a little out of date as that hasn’t existed in well over two generations except in university text books and conservative wish lists. Cutting 15 million plus Americans loose that were government mandated to secure health care in the first place is certainly doable and painless, if you aren’t one of the 15 million, but is it fair and correct given the circumstances? My opinion is no it is not in this case as it will be the most vulnerable that will end up back again flooding and overrunning hospital emergency rooms and patient care facilities paying for Obama’s folly. Regardless if we do something or do nothing we will pay in the end either way as taxpayers. I would prefer a more self sustaining solution as going back to the way thing’s were can be a nice dream but rarely a realistic course of action. Is Congress up to the task? Well there you have a quite valid issue in my opinion.
    - Warmac9999
      
      It is interesting. I remember when Reagan used the term “creeping socialism” to explain the encroachment of government into my life – cost without benefit and loss of liberty was the result. Now, the entirety of the Democrat Party is clearly international socialists whether they know it or not.
      
      Frankly, if we keep going with the idea that government, in the end, is the solution, then there is no real need for America, the rule of law, or the Bill of Rights. The government will decide for you, and that is tyranny. Me, I would rather trust Americans to do the right thing than to trust politicians who will always chose the political thing.
      
      One of the things that amazes me is we can see Europe collapsing. It is in the news every day yet we somehow think we can build the great utopian welfare state run by government and escape the consequences being experienced in Europe. I suggest you watch Europe over the next few years – the picture isn’t pretty now and it is likely to get worse with real pain and street warfare on a national level. All out war is not beyond contemplation when you allow uncontrolled immigration with the welfare goodies as the carrot and your GDP deficit explodes.
Warmac9999

Hollowing out the working class to pay for the welfare class has been done for decades. Time to stop it.
- Mies Rohe
  
  What’s your proposal? Tax the rich? Abandon health insurance, access to health care, altogether? Please, tell me your plan isn’t to deprive the working class of proper insurance, nor to raise prices by pushing the newly uninsured to emergency rooms. You must have a plan, Warmac9999, so let’s hear it. What do you support?
  - Warmac9999
    
    I support getting the government out of the welfare business because the politicians are using it to enslave rather than empower American citizens.
    
    At this point, no more money for welfare of any kind. The budget remains fixed and the payments, rather than indexed for inflation, stay exactly the same. Thus $2T$ remains 2T$ regardless of the size of the welfare population (which is bound to grow as population grows). No welfare for non-citizens. If you come here you have to support yourself (or seek charitable help). If the children suffer, that is your problem not society’s problem. (We are a compassionate people but we do not like our compassion turned into a guilt trip by the left.)
    
    The middle working class elected Trump because they were tired of the handouts for any and everything. They were tired of nobody listening to their complaints and needs. They were tired of being constantly abused if they didn’t go along with the global socialist welfare agenda that was importing trouble from all over the world and damaging the nation.
    - Mies Rohe
      
      Wow! You are certainly consistent, and that should alarm those Veterans, their widows, and orphans, promised health care. Social Security — over! And so on. So I guess you also take the position that hospitals and their emergency rooms can shut their doors and refuse to treat all who present themselves, turning ambulances around as they race to the scenes where they are called.
      
      You call this a guilt trip by the left, but don’t these programs have their origins with non-left and non-partisan supporters?
      
      Let’s face facts: In some states there were some working class voters who rejected HRC. Not Virginia, where HRC won. You are simply spouting your own anti-welfare agenda, aren’t you, and assigning support for it to voters who simply did not want another Clinton or Bush.
      
      Frankly, you’re no better than those you blame for the problem. Instead of being reasonable and balanced, you’re on the fringe that would cost the Republican Party votes across the board. And Congress knows this, which is why they are having trouble repealing and replacing.
      - Warmac9999
        
        You have a choice. Either you stop growing the welfare state or you bankrupt the nation and everybody suffers. There is no inexhaustible source of money. (Hospitals have closed because they cannot afford to stay open – so your hospital analogy makes my point.)
        
        By the way, neither social security or Medicare are entitlements, they are paid for through individual taxes. The fact that politicians of the left have grown and expanded them without commensurate resources to support them is a scandal. The lock box has been burglarized.
        
        Last point, Western European countries are open border welfare states. The results are horrendous for the native populations who in far too many instances are driven out of their homes and communities to make way for “refugees”. The future of their native senior citizens is utterly bleak.
      - Mies Rohe
        
        Last paragraph: Irrelevant. And do you seriously believe veterans benefits are only for those injured in combat? A contract with the govt — you must mean an entitlement from the govt. Neither SSI nor Medicare pay for themselves long-term, and I guess you want Medicaid gone. All of which makes me realize you support ending agriculture subsidies, welfare for farmers. The left has never controlled the govt, these programs are bipartisan in origin and support. Try again, Warmac.
      - Warmac9999
        
        Then you prefer national bankruptcy as is happening in Europe and has happened in Venezuela. There is no free lunch and eventually borrowing can no longer be justified. Right now our debt exceeds our GDP, and that is a form of insolvency.
      - Mies Rohe
        
        Then why is Mnuchin — your guy — begging Congress to raise the debt limit last week, telling them it is their duty? When will they repeal ACA? Abandon farm subsidies? Cut back the military? Huge aid packages for Israel (which Trump and his people support)? Air Force One deployed like a taxicab? I could go on but will not.
        
        One good thing about income redistribution: It gets spent, reverberating through the economy, unlike missiles in the ground and similar spending.
        
        This is a great country with huge earning capacity. It makes sense to run deficits just as my mortgage exceeds my annual income and then some. Foolish not to borrow for growth. Banking is one of our biggest industries. If we all practiced what you preach the USA and the Western World would be bankrupt in less than a year.
        
        Follow your leader Trump’s balance sheet — if he will share it with you — and you’ll find a big big spender — YUGE! — bigger than anyone the so-called Left has ever elected. He is already spending the US into a deep hole, and Mnuchin’s plea for a higher debt limit is a warning sign even you should be able to acknowledge.
      - Warmac9999
        
        We have gone from the largest creditor to largest debtor nation in less than 100 years because of government intrusion into the affairs of free men. The raising of the debt limit is not a signal of success but one of failure. Trump is placing his bet on an expanding economy will add to the treasury and shrink the debt – so far, after 50 days in office, he is on track. I hope the congress gets onboard but they are cowards because this will involve short term pain.
      - Mies Rohe
        
        If you were right — shrink the debt, he is on track — why are they asking, no, begging Congress to raise the debt limit? There would be no need to raise the debt limit if there was even a hint of truth in what you write. Trump and this Republican congress will prove the biggest spenders of all.
      - mezurak
        
        Looks like we will need a few more jobs. Regardless of party, debt is in the mix.
        
        https://www.statista.com/statistics/216998/forecast-of-the-federal-debt-of-the-united-states/
      - Edward N Virginia
        
        How about corporations and wealthy individuals PAY ALL THAT THEY OWE? At the same time as proper-sizing federal, state, and local governments? Warmac999 seems ALWAYS to let the wealthy get a ‘pass’ from responsibility and accountability while demanding that working class people be responsible and accountable. What is that, Sir/Madam/Their Warmac9999? Are you cuck-sucking off big money teets?
      - Warmac9999
        
        You need to go back to the start of my comments. To me, the working middle class has been extorted to pay the bills of the welfare class. The wealthy are protected by accountants and lawyers that know the tax codes and special exemptions – something that the middle class can’t take advantage of.
        
        As Churchill said the problem with capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The problem with socialism is the equal sharing of the misery. Apparently you prefer the certainty of misery to the uncertainty of pursuing happiness.
      - Edward N Virginia
        
        A HA … Churchill certainly could spin a tale! and won a Nobel Prize for it. But, recent scholarship shows Churchill took a bit more than too much credit for the conduct and victory of WW2. But that’s ok, in a way, since he did contribute mightily to winning against totalitarianism. But it does show that he was very happy to accept UNFAIR BENEFITS of the system. All people in power do that. So I prefer a middle way, if we can see it, not unfairly distributing misery or unfairly distributing plenty but FAIRLY ENSURING OPPORTUNITY. Opportunity should be fairly shared and is the ‘heart’ of the so-called ‘American Dream’ that has not been in operation for 3-4 decades (at least). ENSURING OPPORTUNITY requires that the sick can have BASIC CARE that will not bankrupt them. ENSURING OPPORTUNITY requires that children AND adults have AFFORDABLE ACCESS TO EDUCATION AND SKILLS TRAINING for jobs that they can do and that need doing. etc.
      - Edward N Virginia
        
        AH. … Warmac999 is a tender hearted poopsie concerned about ‘native populations’ …. ‘driven out of their homes and communities’ …. AWwwwwwhhhhHHHHHhhhhh! …. Europeans used genocidal law, policies, and practices agains the ‘native populations’ of North and South America. In this light surely our dear poopsie, Warmac9999, will loudly advocate for removal of all Euro-descended populations from North and South American, correct? And, of course that huge walls be erected about North and South America, that Euro will pay for? right? AND if not, WHY?
      - Warmac9999
        
        Open borders globalism is socialism by another name. I value America as a nation. Apparently you don’t.
        
        You really need to study a few thousand years of world history. All nations and groups used conquest to enrich themselves. It wasn’t until people could prosper through making and selling things that conquest was no longer needed. However, even today, conquest is still the ideological foundation of Islam – and it is quite dangerous to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in Western civilizations.
      - Edward N Virginia
        
        We do not DIS-agree with your simplistic historical overview – recognizing that it is simplistic, as surely you must recognize too – but we are DIS-turbed that you never answer questions put to you, you deflect, dodge and weave. Please answer: if ‘native populations of Europe’ have a right (and you imply, a duty) to resist immigration of non-native peoples, shouldn’t ‘non-native’ immigrants to North and South America understand and support the resistance of native populations on these continents? And shouldn’t we move?
      - Rocinante
        
        Widows and orphans, time for a new deal eh?
        
        I’m not tired of winning and this ain’t winning.
        
        Time is up for ‘business as usual’ Republicans. They should switch parties because they are no longer acceptable in mine.
      - Mies Rohe
        
        I’m not proposing new programs for widows and orphans, I’m reminding that these are our current commitments, and to be consistent we need to consider the broad spectrum of pay outs, which include money for NOT growing food. Agreed with you: Inconsistent RINOs are the worst of all.
      - mezurak
        
        I don’t know what the problem is. Just as soon as we eliminate cash money, all of our debt problems will be solved. 🙂
        
        Just as America left the gold standard to the paper standard of valuation, she will now go to the best standard of all. Based upon minutes of life, how many people will be willing to be a slave to their brand new car, or iphone or pay unwarranted taxes? A direct valuation will finally be realized, one minute of life to one value of trade, as an increasing number of younger folks are beginning to reflect in their lifestyles. A paradox between government that is, versus a government that will be. Or else.
    - Reinhardt Reganbacker lll
      
      Suppose they get rid of welfare and Obamacare. Do you really think government would stop spending and running up the debt? Hell no.
      
      Why don’t more people question the F-35 program as it nears the $500,000,000,000 mark? To think a single engine, single seat fighter is going to be what they say it is seems highly unlikely. Anyhow, the Russian and Chinese have both probably hacked or purchased the plans for it.
      
      You may want to think about broadening your horizons to include more than welfare and healthcare. To think that the corrupt bunch in Washington is going to stop spending is ridiculous. As the debt gets higher and higher, they are looking for things to screw up in order to have more money to buy votes and continue the corruption.
      
      Just look at Virginia. When they take in more than they spend, do they give it back? Hell no. They just throw it away on whatever.
Larsele

I wore a Repeal Obamacare button for at least 18 mos. before the election and I’m a huge fan of Rep. Dave Brat, but I find the proposal of a three step process making a lot of sense to avoid total chaos. Hope I never have to rue that last statement.
Michael Parkyn

When the repeal movement got going, I don’t recall anybody discussing an option to modify. Such a discussion might cause support for “repeal” to diminish. Many people live under the illusion that repeal of a policy will bring a return to the original conditions. That is often not true. Repealing ACA may take us to a new, worse state. If we can transition directly to a more workable policy — even if it is a modify vs. repeal — we should take that path.
- Mick Staton
  
  A full repeal will give us the chance to enact stand alone bills to address the drivers of increased health care costs. Trumpcare, on the other hand, will accelerate the “death spiral” of private health insurance companies that is already underway.
  - Michael Parkyn
    
    If individual, independent but complimentary bills can be passed, they can be enacted at once, effectively eliminating a period in which the absence of a policy IS a policy. Or if policymakers are truly pragmatic, they will amend existing policies incrementally. It won’t satisfy rabid Obama haters but it would be the least disruptive way forward.
Mies Rohe

I do not remember many people if any who were pro-Trump, and they were few and far between in Republican party ranks, but I do remember lots of people opposed to HRC, including myself. Other than lock her up, build a wall, etc., there wasn’t much policy substance in the election other than keeping another Clinton or Bush from the White House.
- Rocinante
  
  I remember.
  
  And many “conservatives,” “libertarians,” and “Republicans” were not on board with winning.
  
  The party was, is, and will be better off without them.
Edward N Virginia

GREAT REPEAL IT … and THEN do what TRUMP PROMISED: HIGH QUALITY AFFORDABLE ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE FOR ALL … ALL AMERICANS! CAN U SAY ‘ALL’! YEAH! Repeal ACA and give Americans – ALL, AS IN EVERY ONE! – high quality – “YOU’ll LOVE IT! – affordable access to health! YEAH!
Chad Davis

Private health insurance should be based more on the catastrophic coverage model. Use flex spending accounts for physicals and acute illnesses. Healthy people also need to stop going to the doctor or ER for a common cold.
just a wild & crazy RINO

…. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c886ad23bd0041dd1f29c52e1260e4698bf6b1542f11cce3e9d49b6db82a8be7.jpg

Repeal Obamacare Now

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