We know third party candidacies for President fail and yet it’s been tried twice since 1980. Lifelong Republican John Anderson ran as an Independent against Ronald Reagan and Democrat incumbent Jimmy Carter in 1980. Reagan won 44 states. John Anderson won none. In 1992 Ross Perot ran as the candidate for the Reform Party. He received 18.9% of the vote allowing Bill Clinton to win the Presidency with only 43% of the vote.
This year’s election is ripe for another third party Presidential run. According to Pew Research, 28% of voters think Hillary would make a ‘terrible’ President and another 16% believe she would be a ‘poor’ President. For Trump those numbers are 38% say he would be a terrible President and another 14% say a poor President. Only half of Republicans who are not Trump supporters say they will support him in the general election. Where will these voters go? For whom will they vote?
Earlier this week Politico reported that three conservative leaders organized a Thursday meeting of influential conservatives to discuss how to stop Trump, and if that doesn’t work, and Trump becomes the nominee, how to run a conservative challenger against Trump in November. From Politico.com,
The organizers of the meeting include Bill Wichterman, who was President George W. Bush’s liaison to the conservative movement; Bob Fischer, a South Dakota businessman and longtime conservative convener; and Erick Erickson, the outspoken Trump opponent and conservative activist who founded RedState.com.
“Please join other conservative leaders to strategize how to defeat Donald Trump for the Republican nomination,” the three wrote in an invitation obtained by POLITICO that recently went out to conservative leaders, “and if he is the Republican nominee for president, to offer a true conservative candidate in the general election.”
At the conclusion of that meeting on Thursday the group called for a ‘unity ticket’ to stop Trump.
“He shouldn’t be president of the United States,” said Quin Hillyer, a conservative columnist who emerged from the meeting as the new spokesman for the two dozen or so people who attended. He called the mood inside the room “resolute.”
“Not only is he not conservative,” Hillyer said, “he’s also just not a good face for the country.”
Those involved in the meeting said their focus was on preventing Trump from securing the nomination. But what happens if they are unsuccessful in stopping Trump from becoming the nominee? We’ll have to wait and see, but the large number of people who say #NeverTrump makes a conservative third party run a real possibility.
53 comments
Jeannie your theme is that you don’t know if Trump will keep his promises. Well you do not know that he won’t. He did promise to finish the golf course he took over. He finished it under budget and before time. He did the same with the ice rink. At least he gets things done that he says he will do. What has Cruz completed that he promised to complete? Rubio?
Why has everyone forgotten that Hillary is in deep doo doo herself? You guys ever hear of the FBI and something called the law?
Instead of the conservatives taking over some third-party ticket, maybe a legitimate libertarian (one of the Pauls) should run on the Libertarian ticket.
I’ve effectively seceded from the RNC in the wake of the November 2014 election. This happened pretty much the day after we elected them to the Senate majority, they signaled they didn’t hear out the voters. They only wanted to continue business as usual. There are still good people in the party, particularly at the more local levels. But the RNC is now so tone-deaf, it’s absurd; perhaps they’re even openly hostile a good chunk of their base. ONLY ONCE SINCE 1992, HAVE THESE FOOLS WON THE POPULAR BALLOT IN A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.
Trump is the only one that gives me a reason to vote FOR a presidential candidate this year, and not simply against hildog.
There will be a 3rd party candidate. And his name will be Bernie Sanders.
THAT would be great!
Why else is Sanders doing what he is doing? He is using the Democratic race as a platform to raise money, awareness, and support for an independent run. He has succeeded in doing that. He has been an Independent Socialist up to this point. He is 74. This is his last hurrah.
We could have 4 candidates for Presidency!
Oh, now that would be sweet!
I laugh at these spoiled brats who for years told the base to bite the bullet and pull the lever for the neo-con elitists they put on the ticket.
Now they are whining and colluding like the hypocritical clowns they are.
How does it feel with the shoe on the other foot, you bunch of creeps? That includes all you hacks at Fox News.
If they form a third party to give the criminal Clinton the presidency, so be it. Your time is done, in any event, you globalist Cuckservatives.
Have a nice day.
^Typical Trump supporter.
I supported Cruz Mr. know it all.
Maybe, but you talk like a Trump supporter. My mistake, though, if you had been a Trump supporter, you would have typed your invective in ALL CAPS.
Invectives yes, but what was untrue about said invectives?IMO, nothing. Moreover, ridiculing and using some harsh language is the least that should be said for what these Republican leaders have done to us, and this country.
It’s just hard to see your point through all the name-calling.
Fair enough – I intend to be more temperate the next time, with a little less venting.
With respect,
Cheers,
JJ
I believe Newt Gingrich summarizes this whole third part posturing best by stating:
“Have fun. It’s an amusing parlor game. It has no meaning in the real world, but if it makes you feel better.” …. as for “The Erick Ericksons of the world. If they want to form the let’s elect Hillary Clinton club, fine. But they ought to be honest about it. Any effort to help anybody but the Republican nominee helps Hillary Clinton.”
And by the way pre nomination electability polling numbers are, if not completely questionable very close to being so, the reality is people like to vote for winners and once one has been selected the numbers will shift, they always do every presidential cycle. “Electability” arguments pro or con often are more about passion or distaste then fact or reality in the voting booth. If Ronald Reagan were around today he might give you a better perspective of the fallacy of the pre convention electability rant.
Finally, if you are part of the state or national Republican leadership, an elected official or reside in a location that has registration by political party and can’t support the nominee you have two choices by advocating the third party route – leave the party or be shown the door.
Jeanine Martin/Sarah Palin 2016!
Do I have to have Palin on my ticket? She’s gone ’round the bend.
This conservative nonsense you speak of? Trumps not conservative? Has Trump passed a budget that gave Obama everything he wanted? Like the blessed Congress controlled by Republicans did? Did he spend public money like a drunken sailor on shore leave a la that great conservative W Bush? Did he craft a POS amnesty bill for the corporate donors like a favorite of quite a few of you guys here did… lil Marco Rubio? Did he spend 1Trillion dollars on a useless excursion into Iraq (and still counting that money we are wasting on that dung hill of a place…)
You guys seem to want to hear conservative talk… you just eat that up with a spoon don’t you? Actual conservative actions like cutting spending and controlling the influx of poverty to use entitlement programs… or operating foreign policy based the principles that we don’t waste lives and money for nothing.. that doesn’t really matter to you does it?
Conservative my butt..
Trump could be a conservative or he could be a liberal. We don’t know.
Many wicked hide behind the cloak of christianity and conservativism { the meaning changes to suit } The same words can be used with the previous actions or so called conservatives.
Just what are they conserving { republicans } when they sell America and her citizens down the road , and we subsidize their { republican } labor , conservative ? or Corporate welfare ?
Republicans say Free Trade promotes Freedom , where has that happned ? , other than the freedom to exploit in America .
Now let’s import Tradesman in trade deals , this will import engineers to work for less at Babcock and Wilcox and Areva .
So if you run a bussiness cry to Republicans to import your labor for you to profit while America subsizes your labor.
It used to be in America you hired , trained , employeed and terminated your employees , now cry to the elected officials , I can’t find Americans to work , yea cry like a bleading heart liberal your Republican Goverment will save you.
Flip a Coin , we loose because Republicans and Democrats are cut from the same coin.
So Conservative today is ; cut spending , don’t run the Goverment properly and do not enforce current labor laws and cry once again for a guest worker program but as the party commands , don’t enforce labor laws and call it restoring America to free market principles.
If Trump is not the nominee try to get a volunteer in my yard , Republicans just want free stuff { unregulated labor } just like the liberals want a piece of your republican made exploitation pie.
To bad Republicans lost the feeling of United We Stand.
All Trump needs to do is start bringing baseballs to rallies because you will not find one Made in America , all China.
It seems pretty clear to me that Trump has no motivating ideology be it conservative or liberal.
You forgot to type that Trump funded all the bad stuff you mentioned in your response.
Stonewall — you never seem to distinguish between any of the commenters here and the Establishment Republicans and professional Republican liars we have in Congress. You always write of “you guys” as if the bulk of Bull Elephant commenters don’t have any interest in really doing the things you want done — like cutting the budget or stopping illegal immigration. Why is that?
I’m really curious. Many of us post under our own names and don’t hide behind pseudonyms, so you can check out our sincerity. And even in the case of people hiding behind pseudonyms, you can click on a name and see a history of someone’s statements and opinions. And if you do that, by and large — though not all — most commenters here are conservatives and want much of what you want, too. The big difference seems to be that many of us judge Trump by his history, but you really believe he’s govern as a conservative. But that’s just a difference of opinion, not split over conservative principles.
Now, I’d understand if you were calling out people at “Bearing Drift, Virginia’s Conservative Voice” for being phony conservatives, but here?
What’s up? Can you enlighten me on who “you guys” are in your mind?
I ‘ll take that, a phony conservative is someone that wants to I.D. people at the polls { as should be done } but then fails to have the desire and then goes out of his way not to I.D. illegal bussinesses and employers through their own State issued violations.
E-Verify won’t work because republicans are already removing verification regulations.
Call Director Olson of DPOR ask;
Who removed from the General information sheet that is sent with new and renewed contractors licenses , ” You are required to ensure that all contractors and trade related individuals that you hire hold the approiate license issued by DPOR “.
Governor McDonnell had it removed , allowing more confusion and illegal hiring of illegal aliens as unlicenseed contractors.
http://watchdog.org/202012/subcontractors-shadow-economy-
Yes , under McDonell his appointed Commerce Commissioner Cheng in 2012 ran a 2 Million surplus at DPOR and failed to combat contractors from subcontracting to illegal aliens.
I ask where is the conservative law enforcer ?
Here is the ” conservative deregulator ” , free market principles .
It is disgusting that these Republicans of this administration failed to and complicitly refused to enforce Virginia laws and Regulations as to allow illegal immigration to grow under their reign.
Remember ” Bob for Jobs ” and ” streamline goverment ” , that was piss poor leadership.
Had they chose to enforce the law and not pander to weak bussinesses , Cucci would be Governor , instead they sold Virginian’s down the road by allowing Bush/Obama illegal aliens to circumnavigate Virginia Laws.
You can work here , don’t pay taxes , don’t purchase insurance { Liab and workers comp. } , you can’t vote though , don’t worry we won’t I.D. you { at Dept. of Commerce } even though you owe The Va. Dept. of labor and Industry over $50,000.00 in unpaid documented fines.
I understand how phony all that is, ameri, and I think, by and large, most commenters here at Bull Elephant do, too. Most people here are disappointed with the failure of our Republican leadership to ACT conservative and not just TALK conservative. From what I’ve observed here, this site attracts real conservatives, libertarians, tea partiers, Heritage Sentinels, etc — all part of the insurgency that has put Trump and Cruz as the GOP’s front-runners.
What I was asking was particular to Stonewall. One of his constant refrains is to accuse everyone here — “you guys” — of being phony conservatives and in cahoots with the GOP-E.
Thanks, David it appears that many of us here don’t like what is going on with our Reps. , to defend them because they have an R before their name or to pick out others on one issue and say you or they are not conservative is hogwash and meant to demonize.
I am an employer , an employer that competes with Building Contractors and or Realtors who use illegal immigrant subcontractors in the Construction of New homes.
This is all over the Commonwealth and any who want to aid in ending this will talk with their legislators about it.
Right now there is a Employee Misclassification Task Force , they need new customers so any construction sites that have men working without fall protection must have VOSHA / DOLI called upon them. A Compliance Officer will conduct an investegation , then when investegator discovers that the Licensed Primary Contractor {General Contractor} is using “Unlicensed Contractors” they are both refered to DPOR for futher investegation . These unlicensed contractors DO NOT have Va. Employment Commission Accounts for VEC Quarterly deduction verifications and Uneployment Taxes , and random audits performed under the Va. Employment Compensation Act.
Is it Conservative to enforce the law ? Is it activism not to ? When you do not enforce the law , just who or what are you representing ? A ” free market “,more like a ” freak market “. We can’t controll how the rest country votes in the primary , we can vote for a Republican Governor in 2017 , but will that person be as weak as McDonnell and Cucinelli in enforcing Va. Laws and allow illegal commerce and illegal employment in the Va. Construction Industry ? How many jobs will infratucture construction create ? Now how many will be legal ? How many will be taxed and insured ? Are the Companies landing these contracts going to employ legally ? Please show me how ?
It is easy to generalize all Republicans as SJ has and I do , for who is the Republican standing up for law abiding employers by combating illegal employment ? Complicity brands them as cowards or corrupt in my book .
I don’t have to bring race into this for this is an underground labor market exploitated by ” natives ” as well as ” illegal foreign ” workers.
“It is easy to generalize all Republicans as SJ has and I do , for who is
the Republican standing up for law abiding employers by combating
illegal employment ?”
Who is, indeed? And while I don’t pretend to understand all the present political currents, I think the Republicans’ failure to try to enforce the law — as you suggest — and the result people see all around them, is the biggest issue driving Trump support.
Out my way in the western part of the state, neither Morgan Griffith or Bob Goodlatte did anything to oppose Boehner and the Establishment’s roll-over for Executive Amnesty — and Goodlatte is Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee which has the subcommittee on “Immigration and Border Security!” In fact, they facilitated it.
But where’s a voter supposed to go after spending years in the Republican trenches, manning phone banks, donating to campaigns, handing out campaign leaflets and handbills, etc, etc, only to find their “representatives” lie to them and treat them like fools, most likely because those representatives are bought by big money and calculate they can use that money to fool just enough voters to keep their office each time around? Where’s a voter to go?
And then even some Virginia Republican conservatives — conservative on most issues — tremble at the altar of “diversity” instead of “equality” and fear the media labeling them as mean-spirited for suggesting the law be enforced (something Trump did in 2012) — and tell you “demographics” and becoming politically correct are the only way for the VA GOP to survive — where’s a voter to go?
Where you and I part ways is on whether Trump is the answer. If he wins the nomination, I don’t expect him to win the general, and if he wins the general, I don’t expect him to enforce the law. And regardless of how it all plays out, I hope all of us who are sick of being lied to will unite behind someone with a true conservative record.
Cheers,
David ,
That was a heartfelt response, I truly understand.
I have been one to also say where to go ?
The issues are more important than the party at this point .
Bolling wrote a great piece posted on the other site on how Republicans gave up the Dinner table for the cloth tables at the Commonwealth Club , and for Goodlatte to want to go after illegal aliens fleeing into the wetlands , yet complicit to them working illegally in Lynchburg , Va. is political and down right disgusting.
Trump may not be the answer for America time will tell , but I think he will run the US Goverment as a failing Corporation in desperate need of leadership so as they will be accountable to her shareholders { citizens }.
Besides Cruz as Pres for 4 to 8 or a SCOTUS Justice for life , i’ll take the later.
It is pointless to bother with Bearing Drift, Virginia’s Corporate Donor’s voice. But this website has countless articles attacking Trump too. Many articles for Rubio who is the epitome of lying professional Republican. Don’t give me baloney otherwise. See Gang of 8 Bill. That was for personal gain David. There will be great donor reward for those who bring the amnesty bill cross the finish line.
David… there is absolutely NO gain for a person to oppose amnesty or corporate give aways like free trade bills. Now, free trade is a pillar of “conservatism” but what the US has is not free trade. It is crony capitalism at its worst. You tell me that Trump gave money to Democrats? OK who do you think give hundreds of millions of dollars to Democrats? Where do you think Bill and Hillary Clinton got so wealthy? Corporations and Wall Street… oh and they funded Barack Obama to the tune of 3x what they gave that so called conservative John McCain.
So stop attacking Trump. He has two issues that are the most important things for the 21st century– creating trade and economic policy that favor… THE UNITED STATES… AND stopping the influx of poverty and Democrat voters.
Right on the money, Mr. Jackson. It took me much of my adult life but I finally wised up. During campaign season, everyone in n the GOP is conservative, but they govern like Great Society LBJ liberals. Enough of that.
There will be no Third Party. There will be only one party called Democrats because the other two will be dead to the voters.
No. Third party means Hillary wins.
#NeverHillary
According to the polling, she’ll win anyway. Trump is deep underwater with women, black voters, and Hispanics. There aren’t enough angry voters to make up for that, he’s toast in the general.
Leon Wolf over at Redstate addressed this issue by stating how a third party vote is NOT a vote for Clinton: http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/03/16/vote-third-party-candidate-vote-hillary/
And here: http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/03/18/will-never-vote-trump-loses-hillary-will-fault-mine/
No. Elections are won by addition, not division. This is simple and very easy to understand math.
Our party isn’t very good at that math.
You are correct on that ! Republicans don’t know math, the math of the compounding effect of importing cheap criminal labor.
1099 the illegal alien it only adds to the 2.7 Billion it cost the Fedreal goverment , it only cost Virginia 28 Million to our General fund , but I guess that is a Free Market Principle , not to enforce labor laws.
Put Trump in the WH , he is the only CEO for the job and I will bet Cruz will be the nominee to SCOTUS , Trump will then be a temp. and Cruz will be permanent .
Did you look at the articles and the polling data? It doesn’t matter. Trump will get crushed if there is a third party candidate or not. The reason is simply that he is too sickening for many Republicans to vote for.
Trump winning is a foregone conclusion. The moral character of the party is what is a stake, that’s why Republicans are considering the third party. Why go for a sure loser that would force you to compromise your principles when you can go for another person while keeping your principles and get the same result? That’s the reasoning of #NeverTrump Republicans, and it is sound.
Trump is deep underwater with conservatives.
B.s. Trump will win Ohio and Michigan, with all automobile plants in Mexico you’d have to be the biggest idiot alive to vote for a satanic new world order stooge. But your pseudo apostasy you sit under would have the country filled with illegal aliens. Jesus said if the world loves you youarethe enenemies of God. Your false new world order whore houses you call churchesaare riding the beast of revelation. 2 Thessalonians 2:6,7 katexon, Greek definition is occupation, possession, English erroneous translation says restraining, oidate, Greek definition is swelling, oedema, English erroneous translation says ye know, arti, Greek definition is completely, integral, English says justnnow ! So, when you see the occupation swelling completely then out of the midst comes the lawless one, that’s the beast of revelation. Jesus saves.
Trump is losing Republican states, and he’s behind in Michigan, New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. He’s not turning anything to our side, he’s losing parts of our side.
Yes, Jesus said that the world will have you if you love him. The world hates me as Christian. Democrats hate me, and I’ve seen Trump supporters railing at Christians for disagreeing with Trump. You want proof from this website?
Here it is from an avowed Trump supporter:
“I am sorry I really tried, but I find you really out of touch w/what is going on in the world, our political system, and our gov’t. Your selfish needs over the greater good really turns me off and I simply couldn’t read it all.
We need a fighter not a Bible thumper.”
We don’t need a Christian? Someone who upholds the Bible? And actively insulting Christians to boot? That’s Trump’s side that’s attacking Christianity.
Here’s another:
“Wah! I am a Christian! Wah! I am not getting my way so I am not going to vote for Trump! Wah! Yeah, makes a lot sense.”
The world hates Christians for following Jesus instead of the political and moral trends of the day.
Tell me, who among us is following Jesus, and who is making excuses for a man who doesn’t follow the faith he claims to hold? Who is blasting Christians for refusing to compromise their principles by voting for a man who violates the tenets of Jesus’ commands freely?
Not me.
However, I find it alarming that you attribute my disagreeing with your political candidate as a sign that I’m an apostate. That’s not using religion as a compass for politics, that’s using politics as a compass for religion. The opposite of what we as Christians are supposed to do. Our faith is supposed to be the guiding force of our lives, our political ideals are not.
Tell me, if my church, which I might add, you don’t know which church I attend, is an apostate. What is yours?
Won’t she win anyway? Surely you don’t think Trump will prevail. We could have a third party that becomes a major party as the Republican party dissolves.
Sure, we *could*. Over the next several years. Well after Julian Castro is named to the supreme court.
Precisely, if Trump gets the nomination, the republican party is dead. We’ll need a new second party. The republican party will then be the “third-party.” In fact, it will be precisely the third-party group that voted for Ross Perot, giving us Bill Clinton twice.
I thought I was a Conservative. But Conservatives built that border wall with the footholds allowing folkscto climb right up and over. So I hope Trump will actually close the border.
Only if he becomes president … and even then, can he be trusted to remember what he promised.
You mean like Paul Ryan? W Bush? the “conservatives” who spend like they are liberals?
I agree, there are few politicians who can be trusted but that doesn’t mean Trump will do anything that he’s promised.
I’m confused. So we’re not to trust Trump because we don’t know how he’ll govern, but we’re supposed to continue to blindly follow the supposed conservatives we put in office who spend like democrats and cave every time Obama or Reid calls them a name?
^^^^^+100
You may have a point.
What conservatives? Other than Ted Cruz?